Comments on: What Happened to the 10′ Pole?

By: Jonathan Drain | D20 Source

Jonathan Drain | D20 Source — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:50:57 +0000

When I ran my third edition group through Tomb of Horrors, they used a ten foot pole to test the sphere of darkness in the demon's mouth. That's how it became a two foot pole. The player carried around that two foot pole for the rest of the campaign. Jonathan Drain | D20 Source´s last blog post..Golden Rules of Game Mastering

By: Panda-s1

Panda-s1 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:20:42 +0000

@Tetsubo Not many, but that’s ’cause I don’t run many dungeon adventures to begin with. I look at it like this, there’s two different kinds of obstacles in a game like D&D, universal and situational. Situational obstacles are things where something specific is needed, like trolls need to be damaged by fire before they die, or monsters that are immune to magic and the non-caster party members are needed. Universal obstacles are things like getting into the thieves’ hideout, or negotiating with a duke to get some help, those are situations with a multitude of ways of getting around them.

The problem is traps should be a universal obstacle, but by limiting the detection of traps to a single core class it makes it situational. Basically if there isn’t a member of the party with trap sense, I can’t have a dungeon full of crazy traps without it being unfair. Stopping traps is universal though, disabling traps is only one way to go about it, and there are certainly other ways to stop a trap. But there’s only two ways to detect a trap (well three if you count Detect Trap, but that’s cheating IMO). By making trap sense a feat based ability, then it’s just a case of any party member taking it, but honestly I’d rather it be a case of anyone who is sufficiently good at finding things could see traps.

And I know traps are well hidden, but I rather it be a case of a higher DC to find the trap, then having it be a default.

@Anarkeith Oh hell naw, fatal traps are a stupid idea. They completely go against the idea of chance and luck. A character should be able to use their abilities to overcome something, but a fatal trap is the antithesis to that idea. I mean you’re basically telling a player “Mua ha ha, your character dies because he should have stepped on the tile to the right instead!” If you want a “fatal” trap, my solution would be a trap that does potentially lethal damage, not automatic death (i.e. 10d6 damage on a 5th level character over death).

By: Anarkeith

Anarkeith — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:57:08 +0000

did the 10′ pole die because “instant death” traps died? Seems like nowdays people just take the damage, or beat the trap with max’ed Reflex scores. Ho hum. Maybe fatal traps need to return to the game?

By: mike

mike — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:29:41 +0000

I think that with 4e, you would simple use the +2 rule for any item that players may want. mike´s last blog post..RE: 10 foot pole

By: Tetsubo

Tetsubo — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:48:00 +0000

@Panda-s1 - A high DC trap isn't going to have any of those features. It would be nigh undetectable by anyone that isn't an expert. With possible double or even triple blind elements. If an average adventurer thinks he has spotted such a trap, he's already dead. High DC traps are made by masters and will only be found and disarmed by masters. Question: How often do your fellow players run into such traps? Tetsubo´s last blog post..Guest Host

By: Panda-s1

Panda-s1 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:10:57 +0000

@Tetsubo See I can understand a rogue being good at disabling traps, it’s the detection that I don’t get. Sure anyone can detect traps below DC 20 to search, but there are very few traps like that in the DMG. While the mechanics of traps is complicated, I’d at least expect any reasonably trained adventurer to look for things like wires, and loose tiles, and hinges in places where there shouldn’t be hinges ’cause there’s more to dealing with traps than disabling them, but there’s only two ways to know if they’re there.

By: Tetsubo

Tetsubo — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:51:01 +0000

@Panda-s1 - I am a fairly handy person. There any number of things that I can and have done around my apartment. I've installed locks, put in faucets, put in weather stripping, etc. Nothing all that major. But if something major needed fixing around my place, such as replacing my toilet, I'd call my landlord or a plumber. Which is what an expert like a Rogue is useful for. He handles the things that a generalist can't. So while your standard adventurer can find simple traps, you need an expert for the really complex stuff. Which to me makes perfect sense. Even if someone can find a trap, they may well not be skilled enough to disarm it safely. Or at least not damage whatever the trap is protecting. Sure, a fireball might get rid of the trap, but it also destroys the valuable painting. In real life and role-playing games there are reasons that we hire experts. Tetsubo´s last blog post..American History

By: admin

admin — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:01:14 +0000

@Panda-s1 – It is not that a player cannot have a 10′ pole but its disappearance from the books and regular play are symptomatic of a change in the way the game is played. Whether this is a good thing or not is something else entirely.

By: Panda-s1

Panda-s1 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 06:52:10 +0000

…Y’know, I can’t say I get you all. Just ’cause it’s not listed doesn’t mean you can’t use a 10 foot pole. And if your DM won’t let you buy a ten foot length of solid wood just ’cause it’s not in the PHB, then he’s a jerk (bonus jerk points if he won’t let you cut down a tree and make your own).

@Tetsubo You mean like how only rogues can detect traps above DC 20? I always thought that was silly! I mean I can understand the rogue having special training to do such things, but last I saw Search is not a unique class skill to rogues, and only a single core class being able to use it as such just never made sense. Maybe if they got it as a bonus feat, then at least other classes can detect traps, but with core alone it seems like there should be a “Warning: Rogue necessary to not get smashed/burned/chopped/eviscerated to death!” sign in front of every dungeon.

By: Tetsubo

Tetsubo — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:45:11 +0000

The 10' was always a silly idea. But 3.5 had the longspear, a reach weapon. Which made a nice and handy multi-task device that could function as a 10' pole'. Of course, lugging a longspear into the depths of a dungeon is equally as silly. Having a class skill that allowed you to search for traps made perfect sense to me. Tetsubo´s last blog post..Papo Fantasy Figures